John Bursill And Craig Ranke Mano-a-mano
QUOTE
Paul contacted John Bursill and invited him to this forum to debate me one on one about a week or two ago. Bursill declined and said he was too busy. Bursill is a moderator at the Aussie 9/11 truth forum 911oz. The administrator of that forum, Hereward Fenton, started a thread there regarding Michael Wolsey's interview with Jim Hoffman attacking CIT by labeling us "disinfo".
After about 4 pages of discussion I was alerted to the thread and joined the forum for the first time in order to contribute. John Bursill showed up and reiterated what he told Paul when he was challenged a couple of weeks ago. He said, "Hello Craig I don't have time to enter into a debate at present".
But apparently he wasn't being sincere because he proceeded to debate anyway. Although I remained perfectly civil he threatened to lock the thread, "Ps - would you rather we lock the thread...suits me fine?" for no reason whatsoever other than to flex his authority and ability to stifle the discussion while once again suggesting he was done participating by saying "Good bye!".
But he continued to participate and showed up again with an off topic post regarding pictures of debris while implying this somehow refutes the north side eyewitnesses and supports a 757 impact. When I civilly pointed out that this was a logical fallacy he replied again but proceeded to level a personal attack by saying, "are you insane???" and proceeded to again wield his authority by announcing he was banishing the thread to the fighting pit. Bursill said, "Any way if you wish to accuse me of "a logical fallacy of the highest order" then I think this thread can go to the pit!".
And to "the pit" it went where Bursill continued the discussion.
So clearly.................
Craig Ranke challenges John Bursill
Original Concept for “Ultimate Combat Arena”
Mr. Balsamo (head of the pilots group) moved my post from the Latest News section to the Debates section there. Also, he initiated a series of personal messages with with me upon the move. He emailed our exchange to a group of people I barely know, some anonymous, in an incomplete fashion creating what I think would be an inaccurate picture to them. I'm very concerned about this. I fear now that my words will show up out of context somewhere on the internet because of his actions. I'm very concerned with the unwarranted string of insults that you will see beneath. I'm very concerned with this threat: rob balsamo - "If you reply to tis post thinking equating the above with "ignoring" the issue. I show you the real definition of ignoring the issue and delete your thread from this forum completely." A threat like this has nothing to do with the ethical administration of a group Truth Movement effort. The gentleman has refused my requests for conversation to resolve this. I'm publishing this here due to the necessity for clarification to all on this matter now and in the future. Beneath is our complete exchange to date.
rob balsamo: your post moved, Oct 12 2009, 11:27 AM
(no cc to anyone)
Truth movement infighting and bickering doesnt belong in our Latest News section. Its not news, its drama and this forum is not a Romper Room. http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=18196&st=0&#entry10777939
myself: Re:your post moved, Oct 12 2009, 11:36 AM
O.K. Rob.I disagree with your view and action though. What I'm doing is an effort to turn bickering into a promotable, interesting and effective form of activism. I think that if you look at my work and history you'll see that. Everybody loves a good, clean, and honest fight. Everybody wants to know what going on. Situations like this, presented the way I'm proposing, could turn this negative into a positive. I think you really jumped to a premature and incorrect negative conclusion here, Rob. http://www.911oz.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=29494#post29494
rob balsamo: Re:your post moved, Oct 12 2009, 11:43 AM
(CC: dMole, Leslie Landry, painter, Sanders, Turbofan)
Your post is not Latest News. You posted a debate thread in the wrong section of our forum. Your post was moved to the proper forum section just as if you posted AA77 data in our WTC Complex section. Also, we do not focus on Truth Movement drama on this board. You wish to promote such drama, do it elsewhere. This is a professional research board, not a debate/bickering board. Read our rules.
Rob
cc: noted above
myself: Re:your post moved, Oct 12 2009, 12:07 PM
This situation is to complex to address in this manner between us. The bickering will not go away if ignored. If we turn it into a positive in the manner I'm suggesting, not only will it go away but it will be transformed from a negative into a positive. I'm presenting you with no pressure to go along with this, Rob. How do you fly, Rob? Someone invented that plane. Hope lies in invention in this case, I'd say. I'm talking about an invention and a solution here and taking off. This is an insufficient form of communication for this situation. We should talk. You there right now? I'm ready to dial.
rob balsamo: Re:your post moved, Oct 12 2009, 12:27 PM
(CC: dMole, JFK, Leslie Landry, painter, Sanders, Turbofan)
Paul, If i were to "ignore" it, i would have deleted it. Paul, you're not hearing me. Your post is not Latest News. You posted a debate thread in the wrong section of our forum. Your post was moved to the proper forum section just as if you posted AA77 data in our WTC Complex section. I bolded it this time so hopefully it sinks in. Next time i'll increase font size if you fail to see it again.
cc: noted above
myself: Re:your post moved, Oct 12 2009, 01:10 PM
O.K. Rob. http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=2942&st=260&p=10774901&#entry10774901 Listen man, when you bold text it's like yelling someone. When you say stuff like this: "I bolded it this time so hopefully it sinks in. Next time i'll increase font size if you fail to see it again.", it's disrespectful, insulting, and completely uncalled for. You did this after all I did was disagree with you in a respectful manner in private and ask you to talk about it on the phone instead of text so that we could get straight with each other and avoid any misunderstandings. What's going on, sir? What's going on? http://www.911artists.com/, http://www.911truther.com/, http://911truther.name/ .....among many, many others
rob balsamo: Re:your post moved, Oct 12 2009, 01:23 PM
(CC: dMole, JFK, painter, Sanders, Turbofan) No cc to Leslie Laundry
Paul, Your post is not Latest News. You posted a debate thread in the wrong section of our forum. Your post was moved to the proper forum section just as if you posted AA77 data in our WTC Complex section. Paul what part of "Your post is not Latest News" do you not understand? Do i need to put it in a different color next time? This is the third time i have had to repeat myself. My patience is wearing extremely thin. If you reply to tis post thinking equating the above with "ignoring" the issue. I show you the real definition of ignoring the issue and delete your thread from this forum completely. Keep in mind, the debate section of this forum is the second most viewed section of this board only to Latest News. For you to accuse me of ignoring the issue just because i moved your post to the correct forum, only exposes your ignorance of our forum sections and your disrespect of the rules.
myself: Re:your post moved, Oct 12 2009, 11:03 PM
Rob, Like I said, we should have talked on the phone. We still should. Would you ever talk to someone you barely know like this face to face or even on the phone? A colleague, someone who has made repeated efforts to be a positive force in your life and work? Someone who has reached out to you in friendship and that you have made efforts for as well? http://s13.zetaboards.com/artistsfor911truth/topic/6534499/1/ Rob, everyone who is spending a lot of time on the computer dealing with this information and situation and communicating with others in text like this is getting their mental activity stimulated wildly out of control negative. It's the great danger of this work. You appear to me at this point to have lost a great amount of perspective and propriety of speech. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoN1XtrNAV0, http://www.myspace.com/paultassopulos
rob balsamo: Re:your post moved, Oct 13 2009, 12:41 AM
No cc to anyone
Paul, Yes, I treat everyone the same as they treat me. You have accused me of ignoring the issue, when in fact all i did was move your post to the appropriate forum. I was polite at first, but appears i needed to be more stern as you still are not getting it. Now, you're crying about the fact i was stern... I would have been the same on the phone if you still ignored the reason for the moved post... Paul, your post was moved because it was off topic for the forum section you posted. If each time you are going to cry about such a move, either post threads in the correct forum section or dont post at all. And FYI, the people who were cc'ed on the PM are staff.... not some arbitrary friends. Rob
myself: Re:your post moved, Oct 13 2009, 01:09 AM
I never accused you of anything, sir. I never insulted you once, but you did me. "Paul what part of "Your post is not Latest News" do you not understand?" I'm not crying about anything. I'm getting it. I understand what your saying I did from the beginning. I was trying to talk to you as a friend and colleague. You appear to be talking to someone else and not to me. Let's just drop it. This is a "go nowhere". I gave you my best effort as I do with all humans. I can do no more.
rob balsalmo: Re:your post moved, Oct 13 2009, 01:30 AM
(CC: JFK, painter, Sanders, Turbofan) No cc to Leslie Laundry, No cc to dmole, A new thread started for no apparent reason and taking my words out of context without showing the full original material
QUOTE
i never accused you of anything, sir
QUOTE
i disagree with your view and action though
QUOTE
the bickering will not go away if ignored..... i'm presenting you with no pressure ot go along with this rob
The above is an accusation in my book. Your words, not mine...Paul, no one focuses on the "Movement" bickering except some in the "Movement" and our detractors. I dont know how long you been researching 9/11, but if 9/11 was truly an "inside job" (something we dont even claim at this point in time), there is no doubt state of the art cointelpro at work just itching for a crack to wedge open. Their main tactic is Divide and Conquer. To focus on and promote such infighting is absurd in my opinion. I prefer to focus on my work and let our work speak for itself. Dont get me wrong though, im always up for a good debate and have an open invitation to anyone wishing to debate our work. But to "promote" a Debate as "Mano y Mano" or the "Ultimate Combat Arena", well, that belongs on TMZ, WWF, or some other High School junk-food-for-the-mind programming, it doesnt belong in our Latest News Section. I hope i make myself clear. cc: staff
myself: Re:your post moved, Oct 13 2009, 01:58 AM
Well, your book's wrong on this one. When I said "bickering will not go away if ignored" I was stating my view on the subject matter. The fact that you saw it as an attack against you, well Rob, your not seeing me. Your seeing your own mind. If we were on the phone like I asked you, we could have worked that out. And how is this an accusation? "I'm presenting you with no pressure to to along with this, Rob" As far as the rest goes, we disagree. So what!? It's your site your can do what want. If you do something that involves me that I disagree with, I'll say something. Which is what I did. It's no reason to start hurling insults, sir.
There was no response from Mr. Balsamo.
myself: Rob, Nov 7 2009, 10:43 AM
Rob, It's been a few weeks since my series of actions and our exchange. I think it's apparent that my actions have not damaged yours or Craig's situation in regards to this situation of internet attacks. It looks like the attacks on forums and blogs have been at the very least paused partially due to my involvement and approach on this. What you saw was only half of my effort. Things like this are the other half and it's complementary aspect:
http://s1.zetaboards.com/artists4911truth2/topic/1757813/1/, http://truther911.wordpress.com/2009/11/05/robert-sherman-los-angeles-9-11-truth-106/
The flashy peacock-like rhetoric that I used on the adversarial portion of this was an effort to get people's attention, get them talking, and shock those who were doing these dishonorable attacks to a pause. For God's sake man, I've taken many efforts to connect with you in friendship. You have taken many efforts on my behalf as well. Let's not lose each other over this. Let's talk about it. Paul
Again, there was no response from Mr. Balsamo. This is where the situation stands now as I finish making this post at Wednesday November 11 2009 1:02 p.m. It is a great mystery, shock, and sadness to me.
